In the full of summer heat in Kiev was hot for another reason. In Ukraine, involving more than 70 representatives of ministries and departments, a special training on the implementation of the new legislation on conflict of interests has taken place. Within this framework, one of the leading international experts in the field of integrity, a Board member of Transparency International Belgium, Evert Jan Lammers visited Ukraine. Mr. Lammers found an opportunity to meet with the editorial staff of the newsletter “On the way to integrity” and to answer in the short interview some questions about similarities and differences in approaches to preventing corruption in Ukraine and Belgium.
Edit: What makes Ukraine be alike Belgium on its way to integrity?
Mr. Lammers: Corruption is a universal phenomenon and therefore the fight against corruption is an issue to which big attention is paid in both countries. As in Ukraine, in Belgium there is a problem of political influence on the courts, what generally makes them less independent. For example, after the investigation of the corruptions crimes the accused almost never get condemned. I know that the situation in Ukraine is approximately the same.
Edit.: And how does this independence of the courts appear? What is the reason for such dependence?
Mr. Lammers: Despite of all the opportunities to provide fair justice which gives him the Belgium Law, the judge de facto continues to depend on he will of the politicians, private capital and government officials of high rank. Why am I so sure of this? The fact is that the majority of them are in the conflict of interest. Note that I use this term in a broad sense as the existence of any circumstances that could significantly affect the objectivity and the fairness of the decision. A typical example – the judge’s wife who is in the top management of a private company which supplies with its products some public institutions, for example school. And this company get accused of the machinations during the tender process to determine the suppliers of products in the same school. Rhetorical question – how objective will be his decision in the case against this company?
The example might be a bit primitive, but believe me, the conflict of interest is a widespread phenomenon among the Belgian public servants. However, the conflicts of interests are neither always declared nor complete.
Edit.: And what to do? Can the legislation on the conflict of interests solve the problem?
Mr. Lammers: It’s not a secret that the issue of the conflict of interests is more regulated in Belgium than in Ukraine. We have a special law which was adopted in 1995 and this law on conflicts of interest is separated from the law on corruption. However, it’s not enough to have a law, it’s more important to implement it. In Belgium, there are generally a little more than 9000 public servants. And they must declare their property and mandate (the existence of the conflict of interest). But despite some advances in the management, there is still a problem of enforcement in Belgium, because there are no detailed mechanisms for the monitoring of information’s monitoring and also no effective sanctions for its failure.
Edit.: It turns out that the law on the conflict of interest is not a cure-all solution?
Mr. Lammers: Absolutely. In the same Belgium, almost ten years have passed between the adoption of the law and the understanding of the sense of the conflicts of interest by the officials. And this, despite the fact that Transparency International Belgium conducts daily hard work with all 9 thousand employees and constantly explains the essence of this legislation. In my opinion, it would be appropriate to recall the special website Cumuleo (www.cumuleo.be). By entering the name and the surname of any Belgian public official you can find detailed information if he/she has been filed the income tax return or information about the inheritance in a given year etc. In other words, this resource allows the official to declare publicly his conflict of interest, and the public to verify the impact of the conflict of interest on the decisions of this official. In Ukraine, as I understand it, there is still no legislation on the conflicts of interest and no monitoring on them considering that the army of officials exceeds 300 000 people.
Edit.: Global experience suggests that the watch-dog organizations could be the effective monitors of the conflicts of interest among the officials. However, the question of the possible influence of donors or sponsors on the decisions making by the organizations of public control remains of the current concern. How this issue is addressed in your country?
Mr. Lammers: The common practice in Belgium is that the organizations of public control don’t directly receive money from the authorities or business. After all, they can affect the activities of such organizations. That is why so often created special funds intermediate directly between the socially responsible business, which wants to help the third sector, and the nongovernmental organizations. These funds have a good reputation and do not affect the content of the non-governmental organizations which receive money by competition. This allows the organizations of public control to remain independent and to avoid any attempt of accusation about their bias. Probably Ukraine should go this way. You already have business which is willing to support the virtues. But taking money directly from business is dangerous; too significant is its dependence on Ukrainian politicians and vice versa.
Edit.: Thank you for responding. And the final question: how the organization which you represent can be useful for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people?
Mr.Lammers: Transparency International Belgium is interested in the realization of a partnership with TI National Contact in Ukraine. We are ready to provide our own expertise and experience, especially our own work in preventing the conflicts of interest. What matters is that all this is requested in Ukraine.
Volodymyr Bocharov-Tuz,
chief of the Information office "TORO" Creative Union
- Transparency International - National Contact in
Ukraine
e-mail:
office: +38(0522)27-23-29
cell: +38(097)2826521
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